Saturday, February 16, 2008

Wouldn't the world be better with a little less yelling and a little more listening?

Well, we are in the height of elections. The yelling is bound to increase and well, I own a coffeehouse and Dan and I tend to be liberal in nature, although, I am somewhat more conservative than Dan.I also would love to be able to say that I don't get somewhat persistent in my political views and that I am open to other opinions. I generally am not so open. What I will say is, I am trying ( my husband's response is generally "you certainly are". The following is an e-mail discussion that I participated in. I can say unequivocally that I am proud of the way this e-mail rant turned into a discussion and while both of us vocalized our passions, by the end of our missives the rant was simply a discussion of ideals. No yelling, ranting or stamping of feet and we both listened. I doubt our opinions had changed much but it was a nice way to learn about someone I didn't know before.

This missive was sent by an organizer of a political group that Dan and I both belong to: It's interesting to note that Obama did extremely well throughout the State, but especially well on Whidbey Island. I'm concerned about super delegates It seems to me that these super delegates have an obligation to represent the will of the primary participants in their states. I'm concerned that our two senators, Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell, both of whom I have great respect for, have said they support Hillary Clinton. If the Democrats in our state have spoken out strongly for Obama, I feel the senators have an obligation to support Obama as well. I've contacted their offices (you have to contact their political, not their legislative offices) to let them know my opinion. P.S. I do understand this may cause some super delegates in other states to switch their support to Hillary for the same reason.

This was the rant:I have some serious concerns too. A thundering heard of Obama groupies thundered into South Whidbey High School a short time before the time limit was over. They created chaos. They were grabbing sign in sheets off the tables. There was no way or attempt to check credentials, age, or registration. There is not one shred of validity to the results of these caucuses until they are checked against the lists of registered voters in Washington state. I know of 5 Obama people who came to our caucus after the deadline and demanded to be let sign in. I also know of two who claimed to have been here all the time but were talking with their friends. We let them all vote. Frankly, My personal opinion is that this so called "movement" is terrifying. Not one person has been able to tell me why they are voting for Obama other than that he can unify the country. Well, he can certainly unify the country against him as soon as Karl Rove vetts and publicizes his record of using cocaine, t his lack of support for our troops and veterans, his Afrocentric Church affiliation, and his early education in a Muslim school. I'm sorry if I sound angry but I am. Adults should know better. The young people are just drinking the koolaid.

This was my response in conjunction with another member who responded as well:I am a member of Move On too. I agree with Susan and am a supporter of Mr. Obama. Frankly, I am a little tired of this tirade about him! First, if Obama did try cocaine he is hardly the only person to do so. Seems to me that Mr. Bush also had his experiments with this drug as well. Second Mr. Obama did not go to a muslim school but rather a Catholic school in a Muslim country, and what Afrocentric Church affiliation could you possibly be referring too. Christian????? He certainly seems to support our troops and our veterans (at least more so than our current administration) just seems to want to give more consideration to putting our youth into harms way without trying all alternatives first. One of the things I am finding I am really enjoying is seeing our youth willing and interested in voting!! They are the ones who will be carrying the guns after all!! Who the winner of our states caucus is and The nation decides for a Democratic candidate I will back up the candidate but I do not think that discussing the Republican crap that is dished on irrelevant issues is really where we should be!! If you care to debate than debate the issues. Otherwise it becomes a popularity vote and well Miss America would be better in that regard. She looks great in a swim suit.

her response: You are missing my point. This is NOT a tirade about Obama it is a reality check about the deviousness of the Bush/Cheney/Rove/McCain camp. I don't care if Obama tried cocaine, I don't care if he went to an Afro centrist Church. He is after all, African and American. And, the Church is probably more akin to Desmond TuTu than Louis Farakahan. I'm just saying if you haven't looked at all of the possible outcomes and are naively and gleefully following along then please do yourselves and this country a favor and keep it real. Maybe you have, mayve you haven't. Maybe you've made an informed choice but the reasons I've heard, from ANY obama supporters thus far have no substance. Please tell me something ANYTHING that he has done that qualifies him to be president. I am not trying to make you angry. However, it is a fact that there was no control on who voted at the caucuses. And there must be. This is too important and too serious to be fooled around with.

While I think you might be trying to make an important fact about Obama I am missing it. I cant get past this Afro centrist Church crap. And I do like to pride myself on being informed and real. I just don't get your reality. As for his capabilities... I suggest you go to his website. He meets our nation's qualifications and on top of that, what might actually make him a better president is that he has not been a part of the good old boy network long enough to let them determine his views. Somewhat reminiscent of JFK. The caucuses will be balanced when the sign ins are verified against the voter registrations. As with the regular votes a percentage is expected to not be valid but the majority of votes done in a caucus will be found to be valid. I however do feel we would have a more balanced determination of who gets nominated if we were allowed to send in a simple ballot. I guess what I am trying to say is don't be to quick to discount this man. Sometimes a vote is simply who you want to see win for whatever reason and when it comes down to it that is what the voting process is all about! Sometimes the majority is right and sometimes they are just not interested in the person who you consider right. I guess I am done with this debate. Thanks for this discussion.

Thanks Rene, My heart is in the right place. I'm sorry I'm doing such a poor job of making my point. Obviously I'm not being clear as I'd like to be. Don't of this is about Hillary or Obama. It is about who is the most prepared to deal with the complex issues that will present themselves the day the president walks into the White House. Two things matter to me. Can the candidate fight the military industrial complex machine and can they do they have the political capital and the experience to make progress as President of the US. I know that the people in Move On want the best for the country and the world. My concern is that you all are not looking at the big picture. I have no evidence that Obama can survive the Republican Political Machine and I have no evidence that Obama has the intestinal fortitude to stand up to the forces that would compromise the values that all of you supporters sacrificed to support him. Personally, I don't think he does. But time will tell. I just want everyone to take stock of what's at stake and be clear about what they are willing to risk.

My response: I do understand that but what a lot of us are not willing to forgo is that this industrial machine (as you put it) will eventually end up gone..( I feel it is a matter of time and nature) that we who remember that we vote for who we believe in will be the ones who tear it down not those who turn the election into a contest. Our ideals sometimes are all we have to stand by and in my past it has proven that often that is enough. I believe in Obama because I believe he will follow what he believes in. I like Hillary but worry that Hillary would follow the masses with the money in the end. Sometimes you just vote with that.

I hope I did not lose the progression in this e-mail conversation. It was an interesting conversation and in the end did not really change either of our minds. The truth is I will vote as my heart sees fit and while I may favor one politician over another, in the end they are politicians and not really worth fighting over. What I find valuable is people and our right to vote is a right and a responsibility. It is not a contest or a sport and you don't cast a vote for the winner just for the sake of saying you voted for the winner.

voting on Whidbey Island.


Bunk said...

While I'm listening to your webcast feed, I felt compelled to comment on the Obama vs. Hillary post, and I'm not trying to be snarky.

What this country needs is a leader that understands that the militant factions of Islam, and the way they are operating, are possibly the greatest threat this country has ever faced.

My main criticism of George W. Bush is that he supported the bill for illegal immigrant amnesty. He lost me on that one.

Obama has nothing to stand on except for platitudes. Hillary has nothing to stand on except for Bill's coattails and his ineptitude in dealing with Bin Ladin and other terrorist organizations.

Yet Obama is the favorite, and he's easy to listen to. He's a very good orator, well versed in the craft of promising things that he cannot possibly provide, let alone legislate.

The GOP hasn't produced the strong candidate that I'd hoped for, but I'll NEVER vote for the socialism that Obama and Clinton promote. Too bad a clear thinker like California Senator Tom McClintock isn't running...

Too bad the democrats don't have a JFK clone. I'd vote for him over all the other apparent front runners of either party.

Cordially, and with no offense intended,

B. Strutts

Rene said...

Hi Bunk,
There is no offense taken by your comments or your opinions. I just don't agree with you. That's OK. Life would be incredibly boring if there weren't some variety.

My post was actually more about voting where your heart is and with knowledge about who you back. It was meant to point out that votes should be done for those reasons NOT because the elections are presented as a contest or game. This applies both for the Dems and the Republicans.

It was also intended to point out that in this "political contest" there is a lot of misinformation being put out there. I feel it is up to each of us to research who we vote for and then in the end vote our conscience.

Thanks for checking out the blog and commenting. I will look for you in the future... :)

Bunk said...

Nice response. I just hope that folks will vote with their intellect, and not with their emotions, regardless of their party affiliations.
All in fun,

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